ELIPOC Frustrated with Council, ELPD Leadership
At times boiling over into raised voices and looks of disbelief, the East Lansing Independent Police Oversight Commission (ELIPOC) expressed frustration at its March 6 regular meeting with proposed amendments to the ordinance that defines the Commission.
Commissioners worried the amendments would more narrowly define the commission’s already limited authority and verbally sparred with East Lansing Police Department (ELPD) leadership present at the meeting.
The ordinance in question, numbered 1533, amends the original ordinance that outlined the creation of ELIPOC. Among other things, it adds language declaring the “commission’s role is advisory. The commission does not possess or exercise administrative or supervisory authority over the East Lansing Police Department or its employees.” The amendments also add new language attempting to clarify in multiple places that the commission shall not recommend or be involved in any disciplinary measures of members of the ELPD.
Elaine Hardy, the city’s director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, read a statement from Gouri Sashital, the labor attorney representing East Lansing and proposed the new language.
The statement revealed an unfair labor practice charge filed by the city with the Michigan Employment Relations Commission in Aug. 2022 regarding the non-supervisory police union’s insistence on negotiating over an IPOC [independent police oversight commission] proposal.
“A central dispute between the parties was whether ELIPOC had disciplinary authority of ELPD employees,” Hardy read from Sashital. “The city’s position was that ELIPOC was never intended to make disciplinary recommendations to ELPD and that ELIPOC has never made disciplinary recommendations, and that ELIPOC does not receive information about discipline. However, the ELIPOC ordinance does not expressly prohibit ELIPOC from making disciplinary recommendations. As discipline is a mandatory subject of bargaining, amending the ELIPOC ordinance to explicitly state that ELIPOC has no role in employee discipline will codify current practice and address any potential ambiguities in the ordinance regarding ELIPOC’s authority.”
ELi reached out to Sashital for comment about the amendments, but no response was given.
To members of the commission, however, the proposed amendments represented troubling attempts to diminish the work of the body.
“The biggest problem I have with the amendments is the word advisory,” Chairperson Ernest Conerly said. “This is not an advisory committee. We don’t give advice. That’s always been a problem that I’ve had, is that the police department and sometimes the City Council think we’re giving them advice. This is real world stuff here. This is real world recommendations that folks spent hours researching and learning. We’re not an advisory committee. We provide oversight. So if you want to change it to advisory, then change our name.”
“We’ve never really talked about disciplinary issues,” Commissioner Amanda Morgan said. “There is a knee jerk reaction from the police that we’re out to get them and that we’re out to get specific police officers. I’m wondering if there’s some specific language that can be added to say we’re here to do oversight, we’re not here to go get somebody. We offer recommendations left and right and they don’t always take them. [Former] Commissioner [Erick] Williams, when he was here, expressed the importance of root cause, and looking at training and looking at management. It’s not just about disciplining police, it’s about the system the police work in and that sets them up.”
Commissioner Sharon Hobbs understood why ELPD might want to see the proposed amendments come to fruition.
“I think this recommendation means that this commission is doing its job,” she said. “If I were leading a union, I wouldn’t want a commission like this overlooking and questioning why certain actions were taken in some cases and not others. I wouldn’t want anyone pointing out everything I’m doing wrong over two years. It would make my job harder. It would probably make me question if I would stay in that office. It would make me angry. I think we need to continue to do what we’ve done.”
“I don’t think the majority of the people on the force are horrible people,” Hobbs added. “But I do think there are some bad seeds there. And there is a cultural thing that we need to change.”
Conerly was particularly upset with the City Council Liaisons Dana Watson and Mark Meadows for not informing the commission about the proposed amendments before they appeared on the March 5 council agenda.
Conerly penned a response that was attached to the meeting agenda and addressed some of his concerns with the proposed amendments.
“While this message is not solely directed at you, Dana, please refrain from asking me to identify a way to subject my fellow minority brothers and sisters to be appointed to a commission that the city council intends to mock,” the response read. “This situation is already traumatic and profoundly concerning for me. I do not want it on my conscience that I played a part in recommending individuals who, as the most impacted by police actions, would be placed on a commission that is on the brink of being relegated to an ‘advisory role.’ This would further traumatize them and cause mental anguish when they realize that the City Council is making it easier for the police to dismiss anything the commission proposes.
“Your colleagues do not seek a diverse, robust, and proactive commission,” Conerly wrote. “They seek an advisory council with folks that look like them.”
Watson was eager to rebut that she knew about the addition to the council agenda at the same time as others.
“None of us on council saw the changes until the agenda came out,” she said.
Meadows encouraged the commissioners to pass a resolution asking City Council to postpone the second reading of the revised ordinance, currently scheduled for March 19. Conerly also proposed an emergency meeting with the labor attorney to discuss the amendments.
ELIPOC will hold a special meeting on Wednesday, March 20. The day prior, City Council meets and, according to its agenda, hears a second reading of Ordinance 1533. Council could then vote on the ordinance’s outcome.
Commissioner Chris Root told ELi over text that “it is certainly not a certain thing” that labor attorney Sashital will be present at the special meeting.
Other highlights of the meeting included a visit from ELPD Deputy Chiefs Jennifer Brown and Chad Pride. Speaking during public comment, Brown said that ELPD officers would take turns attending ELIPOC meetings to introduce themselves.
“One thing that is evident as a department and hopefully you as a commission,” Brown said, “is that we want to bridge the gap between the two. So I’m here tonight to start that. I’ve asked our administration and the officers, too, to come to these meetings – you’ll see one or two per month – and we’re going to introduce ourselves so we can have you get to know us on a personal level and ask any questions you may have.”
Both Brown and Pride spent time telling the commission about their personal and professional histories and ambitions as law enforcement officers.
“I want to talk about trust,” Pride said. “Trust is a two way street. We talk about trust in having you guys, as the ordinance states, building the trust between the police and community. But it’s also the trust between the commission and the law enforcement, as well. I’ve had some emails lately that have sort of gone to that trust level or suggesting that there’s not that trust level. Unfortunately, I’m the one who answers that, but when you say that something is deleted or discarded, I take offense to that, because I know the integrity of the people in our department. I know my integrity. My integrity is to do what’s right, do what’s best, and treat everyone the way I want to be treated. I’m hoping that’s going to be the same way.”
Pride went on to say that Brown and Pride were present to “try to humanize us.”
“To bridge that gap,” Pride said about the department and the commission, “we both have to show that we’re here for the right reasons.”
“How do we maintain our independence and provide oversight if we become too involved with oversight?” Conerly asked Pride. “The purpose of the ordinance was so that it’s not law enforcement people [that serve on the commission]. So I would ask…how do you propose we maintain our independence and keep doing our responsibility if we became too engaged with police?”
“There needs to be that open dialogue,” Pride responded. “When you’re reviewing these use of force reports and reviewing these complaints, are you looking specifically at the incident or are you looking at the employee? Look at the incident. Look at it from the reasonable perspective, not from whatever bias you may have towards law enforcement or that officer. That’s all I ask.”
Vice Chair Kath Edsall took issue with Pride’s comments about trust, outlining past incidents the commission has reviewed concerning officers who did not turn on body cameras or the department withholding some footage following the shooting at the East Lansing Meijer. Her frustration became visible when she discussed a situation Pride alluded to earlier in the meeting, an email that Edsall had sent the deputy chief.
Edsall reached out to Pride after witnessing two ELPD officers drive down her street at 70 miles per hour, she said. She accused the department of destroying or deleting camera footage after Pride denied officers were in the area at that time.
“You tell me there’s no report, there’s no video footage, there’s nothing,” Edsall said. “After having told us after the Meijer incident that at certain speeds and with sirens on, the cameras go on [automatically]. What’s the truth?”
“I’m telling you,” Pride responded, “when I looked after your email, nothing was there.”
“So something was deleted or destroyed,” Edsall asserted.
After more back-and-forth, Pride consented it may have been a tech issue and his team was looking into it.
With a considerable amount of time spent on these discussions, other business items were rushed through or decisions pushed until the special meeting on March 20.
Commissioners continue to work on an annual report and to consider ordinance amendments prepared by Root that would expand the number of commission members who are allowed to live outside of East Lansing.